Into Thin Air

I WIN! I WIN!! BWA HA HA HA HA!!

Hey Chay Chay

hiiii :)

Hey Shay shay

Okay. I thought that his writing was credible because he was there and he survived through it. I haven't done too much research on
the Everest disaster but I'm assuming he can't make up so much stuff like that. I thought he made very clear the dangers of high altitude,
and what an ego can do to you (I'm fine, I don't need help, etc). It kind of made me realize that it's true--getting up is truely only half of it.
I mean, obviously I knew you had to go back down, but I guess I figured that once you hit the top it was easygoing back down. This book proved me wrong.
What I didn't like about it was all of the information he presented. I don't know if I just wasn't paying close enough attention, but all of these
names flying at you, and all of these people and he did this at this time and this place and she said this to him but he told this other guy that-- etc.
I got rather lost in there. I did understand, fully, the consequences of miscommunication (eg he said he saw Andy going back to camp, but it was
someone else--then the word got out that Andy was okay, then--I thought this was one of the worst things--Andy's widow had to be told that Andy was missing,
then, because of Jon's identity mix-up, he was okay, safe in camp; then she was told that he was dead. I thought that was awful.

I thought Krakuaer's writing was credible as well.
Kayla, after I read this book I sparked my interest in Mount Everest so I did more research on the disaster and you are right in saying he didn't make his account up.
Before I read this book I, like Kayla, thought it was easy to go back down Everest and once I found out the truth it was eye-opening.

Hey Chay Chay, I have to disagree with you about the whole name flying thing. I never really got lost and I think that this is because Krakauer presents the names and information in such a smart, strategic way.

Also, I think it was necessary for him to include all of the names because all the people who climbed the mountain that year deserve to be recognized. Didn't he say it was the deadliest year ever on Everest?, meaning that climbing during the
1996 season was quite the feat and all of the climbers deserve ample recogniton.

Although I liked the majority of the book, the only complaint I have is about the first 80-or-so pages. I just thought that the background information was kind of boring. But I really enjoyed it once Krakuer described the group's progression up the mountain.

That's what I mean. All the background information got a little tedious after awhile. You're right in saying that the people who lost their lives deserve to be recognized, and in some cases (like Doug's) I thought the background information made the tragedy all the more devastating (he had been kind of pinched financially, worked two jobs, and Andy and the other guides kept encouraging him, until he finally went along). I guess I should have clarified--it was all of the background info he presented that seemed a little irrelevant to the story that made it a bit of a long read. Overall I thought it was good though.

Seriously though, that stuff about HAPE and HACE . . . yuck!

I understand now! I thought you were talking about something else. Sorry. But still I don't think the background info was irrelevant. I think the info was included to warm us up to Everest. If it wouldn't have been included and he just told us abut the disaster than it would have been like "Wow! what the heck?".
The HAPE and HACE stuff was yucky but I guess it is just a fact of life on Everest.

I know this might sound weird and it is probably the opposite of what the book was meant to do, but.. for some reason this book really made me want to climb Mount Everest. And now I am obsessed with the mountain and read about it all the time.

I've kind of imagined what it would be like to stand on top of the world, but this book actually dissuaded me from it. I never thought about the years of practice needed, climbing other smaller mountains, or the money involved, or the real risks of it, or the fact that once you get to the top you are most likely too oxygen deprived to even enjoy it. That was his opening statement, wasn't it? That he was standing on the top of the world but because he was so O2 deprived all he wanted to do was get back down.

The book did mention several times that you can climb Everest without oxygen . . . that almost seems safer in some way. You're not dependent on canisters and therefore if you run out, it's not that big of a deal. Maybe that would make it worth it--by the time you reached the top, without oxygen, you were used to the altitude enough for it to sink in that you'd made it.

i'm in

That's what she said.

I agree with both of you. I, like MOlly, think that this book has sparked my interest in Everest. I mean I knew about the disaster prior to reading and I've seen the IMAX movie that was made during the '96 season but I never knew about the true terror that ensued on the mountain. And I disagree with you about the background stuff though, maybe thats just because its all history and I like that. I thought the background set the stage for the commercialism and arrogance that engulfed the expeditions . I think show that bottled oxygen was a new commodity in climbing showed how climbers of the highest summit had forgotten about the true disasterous potential, but also they seemed to have the whole, "it won't happen to me," belief. I agree that all the climbers needed to be recognized cause of their immense struggle. Imagine what it must have been like to Andy's widow, no hope, hope, then the realization that he's infact dead. OR being in camp and seeing Beck Weathers walk in form the abyss, when he was supposed to be dead. Or just knowing that there is nothing you can do, to help; and you just have to leave people to die. But what do you guys think of Rob Hall's desicion to not turn back?

AJ, I like what you wrote and I completely agree with the stuff about the commercialism on Everest. In fact I'm starting to read this book that is called "The Commercialization of Everest". I feel that many of the climbers go to Everest unprepared and that is why there is so much chaos on the mountain. And Kayla, I disagree with the whole not going up with bottled oxygen thing. I've been watching a documentary and I remember hearing about how much higher the risk is for edema and frostbite. I think it is really dumb to go to the top wothout oxygen.

Chay- you said "You're not dependent on canisters and therefore if you run out, it's not that big of a deal." but the whole journey itself w/out oxygen is a much bigger deal. And before all climbers climb they ALL spend time acclimitizing so even those with bottled oxygen are in a similar situation to those without, it's just that the side effects are much harsher for those w/out oxygen. Also being at the top w/ out oxygen would not be more enjoyable, it would be more torturous because you can't breathe!

I think that it was really brave of Rob Hall to stay bck with Doug after he ran out of oxygen, but even though it was the right thing to do, I think that he should have kept going because it is everyman for themselves on Everest. But I understand that it was his duty to help Doug becasue Rob was the leader.

P.S. AJ, that IMAX movie sucked!

I'm saying that in an emergency I think it'd be better not to be dependent on O2. If you're trapped at the top and you've been sucking in oxygen the whole time you've been above 27,000 feet, and you can't get to any canisters, you're sunk. If you've gone without it already, your body's used to it and you won't get quite the same extreme effects that other climbers have. It just seems like using canisters is more risky. You're placing your life into a can.

Oh, and can I just say, the final sentence haunted me for awhile. When they made the decision to leave Beck and the Japanese lady (I forgot her name--it started with an N) behind, and the guy said something like "The last thing I felt were her tiny fingers on my elbow, and then they let go . . . I never even looked back."

And then later when Beck makes it back alive, I'm like, "GO GET THE OTHER GIRL!!!!!" Seriously this made me think "What if?!" Well, the whole book did that. "What IF they'd turned around at 2 pm like they'd agreed? What IF there weren't so many expeditions at once and there wasn't a bottleneck? What IF they'd set out a day earlier than they had?"

But I think that's a pretty universal reaction to this accident.

I agree with Kayla that not having the oxygen forces you to listen to your body's limits. WHich meant that most people wouldn't have been able to make it passed the Hilary Step. ANd I know Rob Hall stayed back with Doug, but he said to turn back at 2:00 pm. Yet the expidition didn't get to the Hilary Step till then. SO I think that Hall's own arrogance, his desire to have Doug reach the summit after his first failed attempt; combined with the storm caused the disaster to unravel the way it did. And Kayla, there is NO way that the Japanese woman could have survived. I mean it was a miracle the Beck did. But remember the part where JK said that the ice was so think on her face that they had to use a pick ax to break the ice off her face; plus her limbs were so shriveled up that if they had gone back, and if she had been alive then she probably would have suffered through life.
Oh and Molly: The IMAX was Cool :P

Yeah remember that girl . . . ugh sorry I'm awful at remembering names . . . the one kind of doing it for a publicity stunt? That annoyed the crap out of me. She was putting a lot of people at risk, all for her personal gain.

And why are we three the only ones commenting?

You were the only three people commenting because I couldn’t log in till I just figured out that its Grosskopf Tamara and not Tamara Grosskopf LOL duhhh.. ha ha! O well! So here I come :)

First of all, I totally agree with what you guys say, the book really makes one interested in Mount Everest and standing on top of the world seems to be really sweet too. However, by the end of this book, it just scared me to death and there would be no way I would put my life at such high risk for once standing up there and having to making the even more dangerous journey down again.(I knew that climbing down was harder because I remember(even if I can’t compare a tree with Mount Everest lol) climbing up a tree when I was little and I got up there pretty easy, but once I was all the way on top, I couldn’t get back down.. so my dad had to come rescue me) so that was my story ;)

And I also agree that the fact that he was up there and went through all of this himself made this book a lot better, believable, and real. I liked his writing style. Since I didn’t know too much about Mount Everest before I read this book, the introduction/set up/background information was very helpful and made it possible for me to put myself more in their situation dramatizing everything even further.

Kayla, I think that what you suggested about not depending on oxygen and simply trying to slowly adapt your body to its surroundings is correct and would be a lot better. Our bodies, however, are clearly not meant to be put in such harsh conditions thus I think the probability of one getting all the way up there without oxygen is much lower than one trying so with oxygen, and wasn’t the whole point of this to for once stand on top of the world!? So idk.

Molly, I also believe that it was extremely brave of Rob Hall to risk his life(which he did to begin with by starting this climb lol but I meant risking it even more) in order to stay back with Doug. Like AJ I think he did so because he realized that there was no way that Doug, who had failed once before, was going to turn around without fulfilling his dream of once standing on top of the world, even if that indicated his death. Rob knew that Doug would for sure die without him, so out of pure unselfishness and humanity, he stayed.

Now that I think about it, however, didn't Rob talk Doug into trying to climb Mount Everest again and to reach the top this time!? So maybe he felt not only responisble and obligated but also guilty!?

Kayla, yea, I remember her very well, I couldn't stand that woman either, it was very irresponsible and selfish.

By the way, I'm really sorry all these comments came at once.

Yeah, I remember the annoying press lady too! I think her name was Sandy Pittman. She really annoyed me because she didn;t try har enough to climb the mountain,
so that poor Lopsang sherpa guy had to carry her up to the top. I thought this was ridiculous. And she had the sherpas carry up all her media equipment too.
I thought in a way she kind of symbolized the commercialization of Everest. I felt that she was just some rich lady looking for an adventure. She didn't come prepared and
therefore put the rest of her team in danger.
I still don't agree with the whole "don't use bottled oxygen" thing. I know that it lets you recognize your body's limits, but it is a heck of a lot more dangerous. And i think that if t was truly safer,
guides would have figured that out and more people would be climbing without oxygen right now, but whatever

I was listening to the new High School Musical 3 song, and it mentioned something about teamwork and my mind instantly went to the book and it made me realize how much teamwork is needed
to climb Everest. Everbody on the mountain is putting thier lives in somebody else's hands so if one person messes up it creates trouble for another person. You really have to put your complete faith in anyone
you climb with. It is important for everyone to have trust in each other, because I think that other people's trust is what keeps a lot of the climbers in the story going (AKA Beck). They know that they ahve a responsibiltiy to the
other climbers and so no matter what they cannot give up.