Slaughterhouse Five

I didn't even read this book

I do not think it is actually science fiction because there are many times where the book hints that his visions are not real by referring back to reality. I can't think of any instances though, but i looked for some while I was reading. I just forgot. So really the story is not really happening, but only going through the main characters memories. Whats his name again.

Very good point, chase.

But seriously, it is difficult to tell whether or not the science fiction portion is real or not; Billy's friends and clients didn't believe him, and his daughter thought he was crazy, but Billy himself did not talk as if he was insane at all. So the book pretty much leaves it ambiguous, but still the tone of the story was science-fiction, for you don't find time-travel, alien space ships, and spiels about how there are seven human sexes in most anti-war books. Still, I think that the primary purpose of the book was to show firsthand the destruction of the bombing and the ironic, miscellaneous tragedies that soldiers suffer.

I agree with Mike about the primary purpose of the book. I believe the time travel helped to show how certain things that happened in Billy's life triggered past thoughts from the war. Trying to explain the actually time spent in the zoo is more difficult. Being in a war, especially as one as devastating as WWII, is obviously very traumatizing to someone, and could lead to someone going insane, like his daughter thought. However, at least while I was reading the book, my logic told me not to believe what was happening to him, but at the same time I caught myself believing it.

I agree with most of the things said, especially that of time travel showing how things happened/how the war was affecting him. But, I believe it was less a book of science fiction and more so that of a messed up guy and his delusions. The first line in the book reads, "All this happened, more or less." Based on that evidence, I'd say it's definitely more a story of the war, coping with the war, and how being a prisoner of that war affected Billy and essentially, Kurt Vonnegut. The aliens, space ships, and whatever else - I thought these were kind of his way with coping with (and trying to avoid) his memories from the war.

Anne you bring up a really good point there. I never thought of it that way, but the more I think about it now it would make sense that something as twisted as what Billy was exposed to, with burying the bodies, watching his friend be killed by firing squad, etc. etc., would lead to a twisted way of coping/avoiding his memories of the war. Could the whole celebrity sex scene in the zoo be tied in some way to men keeping themselves "entertained" during war time?

Definitely, Mary! Because, really, other than sitting in a circle playing cards and taking long shits, what other entertainment did men in war have? They were far from home (some far from their wives) and while hookers were most likely available.... sexual entertainment is always great! Btw, does anyone remember the name of that celebrity?

Another thing I found entertaining - drunk Billy trying to get into his car, "He was in the backseat of his car, which is why he couldn't find the steering wheel." Hahaha.

One thing that really BOTHERED me was the continuously used saying, "So it goes." At first it confused me, and I realized they said it after every death. As the book progressed and the phrase was used numerous times per PAGE, it became almost disturbing, while at first it gave me a little chuckle. Each death was made to seem trivial as that was the only recognition of it! So many died, and the only care they got was, "So it goes."
Did the continuous use of that phrase bother you guys?

It bothered me a bit, but at the same time I believe is shows how being in a war affects your opinion on death. So many people died in the war that Billy eventually became numb to it. I think that happens to almost everybody in war. In war you lose any morals you have. You are out there killing people, people you don't know, while at the same time people are doing the same to you. Death almost becomes another part of an everyday thing, so emotional attachment is lost. The phrase, "So it goes." completely drills that idea into your head over and over again.

GREAT point, Mary. I think that also triggers the question of ethics vs morals. In normal society, killing a person would be completely wrong, all over the news, etc. But, in war, the deaths are not listed by name, but by number. The morals change in war to be allowed by society - it's almost an accomplishment. But is this not ethically wrong?? It's twisted..

Anne the name of the celebrity was Montana Wildhack

Ok so can Billy be considered a schizophrenic then kinda? Sorry its kind of a dumb question but I was wondering that while reading the book. What kind of annoyed me in the book was the beginning how Vonnegut writes this whole chapter about himself basically which has almost nothing to do with the book, I mean yeah it talks about how the book came to be sorta, but is it really necessary to have that chapter there?

Well, the beginning chapter is necessary to show that Kurt knew what he was talking about since he had been in the war himself, otherwise the reader could assume that it was just a piece of fiction based on totally made up events. But that chapter was a surprise, and it caught me off guard.

I agree, Mike, the first chapter did catch me off guard but I was glad for it - it kind of tied everything together in my opinion, like a good preface introduction. I thought it was interesting though how Vonnegut made it part of the actual story? Does anyone think that kind of connected it to the rest as if this is HIS life story and it affected him a lot? Or something?

It depends on what you mean, it certainly connects him to the story of the Dresden bombing and how the American prisoners of war had to endure the harsh conditions Billy did. However, I don't think Vonnegut was trying to relate his life literarily to the experience of Billy, or else he would have made that more explicit in the intro.

Just another comment on the "So it goes" phrase, that was one of my favorite aspects of the book. It shows how Vonnegut has lived through so many horrible experiences, that he simply is able to right about these experiences with an ironic sense of humor; like Mary said, he became numb. So his persistent use of the phrase forces you to see the world through his eyes, looking at tragic events one after another and shrugging them off. It also makes the narrative more stirring and impressive; for instance, when I read the description of the iron maiden, I was disgusted enough, but when Vonnegut said "so it goes," it just adds a sort of shock factor that can make you either gasp or laugh.

I agree, I think this book is not so much science fiction story and a protest novel. While it is constructed like a science fiction novel, the books contents are anti-war. I really liked how Vonnegut used the time traveling to weave the story of the war and the story of Billy’s life together, it was a more compelling way to tell the story and deliver information as it is needed instead of in chronological order.
I believe the presents of the Tralfamadorians in this story was to show just how little control people have over there own lives. These aliens accept their fate and tell Billy that only on Earth do they talk of free will, because humans believe time is linear.

And on the topic of “So it goes”; every time death is mentioned in the novel, Billy follows it with “So it goes”. I liked how Billy made every death, regardless of its cause, equal in significance this way.

What to you guys think the significance of the title is? I'm not sure that part was significant enough to have the book be named after it, but I might not be remembering correctly.

I would have to disagree about thinking the title is not significant enough. I think choosing to use the name of where he stayed in Dresden while imprisoned was a perfect title. Especially because of the part when Billy was in the plane crash and all he remembers telling rescue people is "Slaughter House 5" in German. Not only was Billy prison in Dresden at Slaughter House 5, but he was also in that building when the bombing happened. When thinking about it, I could not think of anything better to name it.

I was, in fact, not remembering correctly, and I agree with you Mary.

um he explains in the beginning why he says so it goes. its cause he believes he now lives in the fourth dimentsion. So, he sees all of it at once. I dont get it but thats what he said cause i was wondering why he kept saying it too. but mike's reason makes sense. Anyway. I wish i could see the whole mountain all at once like the tralfamadorians. wow ,I actually remembered their names without looking at the book. It made me so angry when they kept explaining that they could not change how the universe ends cause it just explodes every time the same way. Its confusing how they can not have a choice but we clearly do.

You know how he doesnt actually travel through time, but just thinks hes in the fourth dimension. Well that means hes just sitting in his basement the whole time starring at the wall while the story goes through his head. LOL! made me laugh.

O and i feel bad for the guys who get their pekers shot off by a hit man from that revenge is the sweetest thing in life guy. who are able to think about what their life wil lbe like without one and then get shot in the head. There were some messed up dudes in the war. And its not billy's fault for bringing his company down he was in the fourth dimension. So if his pecker gets shot off, thats not fair. then he'll have to focus on a different point in his life which is more happy.

come on guys step it up give me something to work with im bored

I agree with Mary's comment on the title, I too think that Billy's imprisonment in Slaughter House 5 in Dresden played a significant part in his life.

While I was reading I felt kinda annoyed with the Weary character. Did anyone else feel the same way? I mean he saves Billy's life only to make himself feel like some sort of a hero, and then when he blame's Billy for breaking up the Three Musketeers. I really didn't think that was fair on Weary's part, I mean yeah he has felt abandoned almost all of his life but he shouldn't blame that on other people. What do you guys think?
And also what did you guys think of Billy's daughter and her reaction to her father after the accident?

i agree with Chase what other stuff did you guys think of while reading?